Summary of WATO Foundation Meeting
WATO foundation meeting Equiros Exhibition, Moscow
August, 18, 2008
Equiros Exhibition Center, Moscow
Notes in Russian by Nadja Tarasova
Translated into German by Nadja Tarasova
Translated into English by Nadja Tarasova and Jessica Eile-Keith
Leonid Babaev's opening speech
Leonid Babaev – Shamborant studfarm
Alexander Klimuk – Stavropol studfarm
Fatima Mirzoeva - interpretor Russian to English
Maria Marquise – interpretor Russian to English
Mino Denti and Sandra Denti (Italy) - president of AT association in Italy and breeder.
Massimo Biazzi (Italy) – vice president of the AT association of Italy.
Vitaly Andruhovich (Russia) sportsman, the person with wings. Handler and rider in many Russian Akhal-Teke shows.
Natalia Beloborodova (Russia)–Veles studfarm.
Jessica Eile Keith and Todd Keith(USA) - Worked with breed for more than 15 years, founders of studfarm Karakum in Florida. Founders of The Swedish Akhal-Teke association.
Tina Wenman (France) - Secretary of the French AT association. Breeder and worked with breed for 18 years.
Emery Rhodes (USA) - fan of AT breed
Silvano Serevi (Italy) - new consortium of AT horses.
Marina Serebryakova (Russia)- more than 20 years in breed. Founder of studfarms : Akhalt-service, the Pearl of Switzerland and Altyn-Sutek (Kazakhstan)
Maria Motzar (Russia)- director of studfarm Gurtbil (the Moscow area). A basis of studfarm she uses Turkmen stallions.
Maria Bochareva (Russia) - Sportsman, director of riding club Aurora, owner of AT stallion Ravshan.
Marjana Marchuk (Ukraine) - owner of several AT horses
Alexey Filippov (Russia)- veterinarian , represents studfarm Staniza.
Habib Dzhaparov (Dagestan) - represents studfarm Dzhaparov Brothers.
Abdurahman Osmanov (Dagestan) – owner of studfarm Naiba Idrisa.
Wang Zhenshan (China) – member of the Beijing Jockey Club.
Ma Ming (China) - owner of a small farm in China.
Maria Marquise (UK)- owner of AT horses in England and founder of Akhal-Teke UK Ltd.
Maria Solidad (France) – owner of AT horses.
NadjaTarasova (Russia) – studfarm Akhalt-service, Russia
V. A. Podobaev (Russia)- VNIIK
Ovljakuli Shapirov(Turkmenistan) – breeder
Evgene Kishenko (Russia) – studfarm Shakh Teke
Julia Kuznetsova (Russia) – Magazine Akhal Teke Inform
Speech by Alexander Klimuk
The purpose of the creation of the association - development and advancement of AT breed.
I want to address the history of the present question. For 90 years, 99 % of horses have been concentrated in territory of the USSR. It is necessary to say, that in the territory of the USSR a good system for registration of horses was created. VNIIK has been engaged in registration and publication of studbooks. By the orders of the USSR Ministry of Agriculture a breed council was created to address all questions concerning the breed. The breed council consisted among others of representatives from the leading studfarms of the USSR. At the end of the80’s, during the breed show in Tbilisi, an Akhal-Teke breeder’s association was founded that united all breeders from the independent states at that point. This association, The Russian Akhal-Teke Association (AATK) more or less successful, still exists. This association, one might say, is the national association for Russia and for the CIS countries. But already after during the 90’s, the situation for the AT breed of the began to change quickly. The breed has spread geographicly considerably. Today many countries all over the world have people who love, appreciate and breed this breed and cannot imagine a life without this breed.
Today the All-Russan Institute of Horse Breeding (VNIIK) is managing the breed. A considerable number of breeders world wide continue to register horses with VNIIK. However, at the same time there are also countries, that would like to create own studbooks. For example Turkmenistan - the native land of the breed. But the problem consists, that we do not have an international organization, that can give a directions and reference points for people, who wish to breed AT horses in the world. We do not have, until now, any organization, (like other breeds such as Arabians or Thoroughbred), that would regulate rules of the edition of studbooks, would have possibility to approve them or not, and to conduct monitoring of these books.
In my opinion, this situation does not promote population of breed and constrains its development. It would be wrong to say, that were no attempts made to create an international organization. In the 90’s, in Dubna, MAAK was created. All of us have actively supported this association with our souls. For the first time, we got together actively to try to solve and discuss existing problems, to identify problems and their solutions. However, since the beginning of the year 2000, this work has completely faded and has come to nothing. For the last 7 years we have had no meetings and we have not discussed current problems.
Today we will make such attempt. If we discuss today at least a part of problems standing between us, today's conference will be successful. Thanks you.
In connection with this, I would like to ask you. We have not met for 7 years. Do we need to have an international organization? Please tell me!
Therefore please continue to speak, and let our voices tell – if we want this association or not.
I fully agree with the creation of such an association.
On behalf of the French association there is such opinion, that it would be good to create such association, but we are concerned by the question of the studbook and that it will not be discontinued.
It would be desirable to learn the purposes and goals as well as the problems are put before we make descision about the creation of this association.
The main objective - to maintain the integrity of breed. To not to allow us to break up into small conflicting groupings. We are not at all against the present studbook. I am not going to leave it and I trust its work, but how do we cooperate with the considerable and valuable part of breeders, that are in Turkmenistan? Today our contacts are only casual. They wish to publish their own studbook. Basically it is needed, and, in order to develop some rules for the edition international national studbooks, we should create such organization, where we could discuss all these questions.
It would be desirable to have association, which would have uniform rules of the breeding registration and in which breeders would have influence, a direct relation to breeding registration.
It would be desirable to see the project and the plan of this association, so that it was possible to discuss and vote for the purposes and missions. That all was all in order.
Therefore we here also have gathered, to define the purposes and missions. If they are approved by a society, we will begin to operate and we will create this association to be functional. Besides, personally I fear: May everyone thinks everything is good? Alive, 7 years no meeting. May be it is not necessary to anybody.
The organisation is needed. Because every horse owner needs to know, what will be tomorrow. Also it should be a harmonous control system in the breed, which we now not see.
Yes, we have problems. And for the decisions of these problems the associations AATK and MAAK have been created. These organisations exist, but we ourselves are guilty, that we have not met for 7 years. VNIIK is engaged in the work of the studbook, and VNIIK and prepares a new volume of the studbook, where all horses of the AT breed will be entered, including horses born in 2008. We do not accept today’s work of AATK and MAAK. We are not satisfied with today’s work of AATK and MAAK. For our further actions (the organisation of new association or the restoration of MAAK) it is necessary to call congress and to understand the situation, it is necessary for the management of МААК to report about the performed work (money, work, member fees and so on.) Today I do not see enough authoritative people, to lead the AT breed. Only Klimuk, but others I do not see today.
One working organization need to be liquidated before another, new organization can be created. Otherwise it will like in the fable - the swan, the crawfish and the pike. And from three problems we will generate 5-6 parallel problems. We love this breed, it is our life and we wish to make as better. Let's think of that is the best.
You are absolutely right - the most important thing to us - to keep unity of breed, but MAAK as the organisation should be re-registered, it has not been made and actually MAAK does not exist. AATK does exist. We can name our organisation as before. Nobody prevents to us it to do so. Nobody prevents everyone to discuss and spread the following conference to a wider scale. The main objective of our meeting is not AGAINST somebody, but FOR our favourite breed of horses. I personally am afraid of nothing more, as of new split. Actually all people whom I see - I very much respect. These people do much for AT horses. Whatever we can discuss today, let us discuss. Some questions we will transfer for wider discussion. Let's talk about our problems.
Everyone has been informed. Our invitation was sent to everyone. Many could not come. Attending though, are representatives for countries and associations. Also in Russia, everyone has been informed. Not everyone, however, have been able to or wanted to attend.
I would like to hear, why foreigners came to this conference, which problems they have and so on.
It is very important to hear from Russian colleagues, that they understand, that the organisations work incorrectly. I agree with you, Mr. Osmanov that it is easy to criticize the existing and it is difficult to create the new. It is unusually difficult to create an organization, whith international purposes. Nevertheless, from last meeting MAAK, which has taken place in 2001 in Ashkhabad, we - members of MAAK have not received any information from MAAK. Therefore it is not clear, whether exists MAAK today. There have been different discussions, that has taken place outside of Russia, I have been taken part in European and US discussions. From our point of view, the difficulties consist in registration of horses and in our ability to understand, how the registration is performed; what are rules, and as the registration system is constructed.
For registration of a horse, the owner needs to have usually personal relation in VNIIK to transfer documents, money and to receive passports. It is unacceptable!
We also consider, that development of breed and the work of selection rules should answer problems of the whole breed on a global scale. We have received the answer from Germany (Blatt, Topfer-Gerbert and Magalov). They welcome association creation, and they agree with our definition of main problem - problems of registration of horses. Herbert Blatt and Sabine Topfer-Gerbret have offered the participation in such organization. They represent a management of German association. And Tina Wenman, which speaks on behalf of France. Petra Maresova, the president of the Czech association also agree with problem definition on registration and also offers the cooperation. Chrispf Vogel - president of the Swiss association also agrees in definition of a problem of studbook and offers his assistance. Shaaron Saare (USA) – on the board of a US associations also agree with problems of registration and it is ready to cooperation. Todd Keith also agrees with the purposes and would like to work, using the wide experience in creation of electronic system of registration.
We need the open and clear system of registration, which can exposed to audit by independent persons. Also the system of the analysis of DNA is now necessary, and in all breeds of the world, DNA analysis belongs to the owner. At such system, if the horse moves from one district, it needs to be accompanied with DNA analysis. Besides questions about studbook. I wish to ask, why in this city there is no World Championship this year? The mission of any association is in advertising and advancement of breeders and more championships are necessary. The World championship should be international. Why it is not present? What reasons? Who has cancelled it? Di you did not want to have it?
About registration. Actually testing of AT horses on blood groups have begun much earlier, than for Arabians and TBs in Europe and the USA. I agree with you, that now time has come to verify the origin of our horses with DNA, but for this purpose we need time. As to discussion of direct problems of manageent of studbooks. It is necessary to discuss this question in the presence of representatives VNIIK, that are engaged in managing the only existing and working studbook. But, certainly, it is one of the most important questions of that association, which we will try to create today.
It is possible to wait for a long time for VNIIK. I do not know, if they want to work with us or not. At the last conference they told us, that we do not have any rights in management of the breed and no influence over its development. I very much would like, that Mrs. Ryabova was here to answer many questions.
We have not gathered here for consent! It is necessary to argue and in to defend the own truth. For example, for Ovlja-kuli from Turkmenistan it will be very difficult to understand, how the Russian book will be connected with the Turkmen book. And for others to, it will be difficult to understand. We can wait for VNIIK for a very long time before they will want to talk with us.
It is not necessary to accuse people of absence. Let's not speak about people, when they cannot answer here and now!
Which questions do the breeders have competence to answer. We have been told – none. Blood from my foals have poured out My horses are not registered. Breeders from Europe wait for three years of registration. What gives VNIIK is such right?
I was at the conference in 2001 in Turkmenistan, when we tried to create such an association, where the work would be shared. Delegates from Europe attended. Todd Keith was with me and we were nominated representatives from Europe. For example. Todd Keith has been elected unanimously on work with the studbook. And since then, he has not stopped this work, he works with the development of electronic horse registration. He also worked with Mrs. Ryabova for some years. I was nominated as the vice-president. So it is necessary to ask a question, why does it not work. Because each country has their own problems. Consequently, when there is an idea of creation of an international association, it seems to all, that it will solve all problems, including the national.
Therefore, the international association should create some ideas, on how work with the national associations. Also there should be clear division. Selection is one, advertising is another. The problem is, that in Turkmenistan there were problems, that resulted a vacuum. Tina Wenman should tell you, how the French association works, and that with such system also the Turkmen association could work. As for the state registration. Also it is without doubt, that if we create a new associatoin, it is necessary to dismiss the old. In that case there will be no split. Also there will be a continuation of another. Therefore all present peoples should voice their own opinion and describe their own problems.
In France we know all these problems. We ourselves went to Moscow with test tubes and blood. In France, horse breeding is regulated by the state. So in France the Ministry of Agriculture has signed the agreement with VNIIK. Any horse born in France is exposed to the analysis of DNA and is registered by the French authorities and registered in the French studbook and all info is sent to the main studbook. Also we prosecute subjects of evaluatin. We have two experts, who were trained in Russia and they perform evaluations in France. Therefore I imagine system, in which each country that has similar system and the international association, which will be OVER of other nationals associations.
But in France there is a problem, as we wish to import horses. But it is impossible from the countries, where that hasn’t got such a system. Today the general role of registration of the imported horses is executed by VNIIK. As Todd Keith has mentioned, there is a question of the Championships and Rules of their holding and such rules should be international. The French association wishes to avoid split, therefore I represent association to co-operate with all.
Is everything good with you. Do you have any problems?
Our problem is that we cannot import from many countries, as they use other systems of breed registration. It is our basic problem. Our association is not big and for us teamwork is important. Therefore from our point of view, we not simply sit in a corner, we wish to help with creation of the organisation and to participate. And also our agreement on cooperation with VNIIK - very recent.
What at you the basic problem at import of horses from other countries?
Not always there are imported horses with correct documents, which are accepted by our state.
Each country has the right on the own breeding work. The harmonious system of breed registration and centralized registration is necessary.
Do we need WATO or is not? As Mme Wenman has told us, that they have national laws. And I ask, do you think WATO is necessary, or can VNIIK itself be the international organization?
Mariana Marchuk to Tina Wenman
Are you independent from VNIIK?
We are not an independent system. Our studbookis not independent studbook and we manage the studbook according to the rules of VNIIK.
In USA. AT horse born in the USA are registered in the American association. They do not demand registration in VNIIK. American ATs will be no registration in VNIIK and then I cannot sell it to France.
In France for import, an AT horse needs documents from Russia or France.
(Explains the purposes and missions of WATO to Ovljakuli, as he was late)
I ask Ovlja Kuli to tell us his opinion.
I would like to say, first of all, we do not have trust in each other. There are many associations. If someone needs to have a pure horse, he will get a pure horses. If each person confirms the origin of the horses in his country, why would this documentation not be accepted in other countries? Always a big problem around the Turkmen horses, that the blood is mixed up with TB. I do not deny it, and some breeders do so for people for races and for baiga. There are such cases. But 99 % of those horses, that are bought in Turkmenistan prove to be true in blood analyses. For example, if I buy a horse from Klimuk or in France, and they confirm origin of these horses, why would I not trust them? And if I like this horse, it is ok with me.
And what to do with 1 % of partbred or if purity is not confirmed?
They should be excluded from breed.
I will give an example. I will buy my own laboratory, I will make analyses. I do not get nto dispute. I want a uniform system, that could confirm each national laboratory. There is a question of harmonious system and harmony of the uniform corrected conducting of studbooks and consequently we here have gathered and we ask each other, is such system is necessary to us? Or we do we want nothing?
Is such association for wide trade necessary to you, or do we will leave everything as it is.
If we all have such an organization, first of all it is necessary to perform electronic registration of the horses. Experts of each country describe the horses and take blood. One person from Russia (VNIIK) is not in force to travel all countries and to make this analysis.
If I will not have a confidence in the purity of my horses, I will not place them in an electronic databank of horses. Why do I need to be dishonest? That is how I see registration of horses, in the second someone wishes to buy a horse, he has the right to take blood and to verify in an independent laboratory.
And how to prove the origin? It is possible to write any pedigree. How to verify origin, if there is no analysis of parents in this laboratory?
Make a test of all horses. Take the blood and test parents. Buy horses after blood approval.
Dear colleagues, it is necessary for us to decide, if this association is necessary to us or not. I suggest that we all think this though and after our break we need to make the decision - it this this association necessary to us.
It is necessary, necessary. But I do not agree with Babaev. I have made the offer to reanimate MAAK, dying, in agony and sick. We have created our association, but yet have not started it. It is possible to compare it with the mechanism on preservation. It is necessary to start it. And if that does not suit us, it is necessary to identify the reason to our problems and to discuss them. We had a working exit. We had a working structure. I will give an example. We have stallions that race in France, and as a member of association, I regularly receive information, magazines and so on. We see, how it is all works. We see this system. And what do we know about AT horses in the USA, France, Germany? Nothing! So let's create such association.
I represent the British Association and I wish to offer you an interesting problem, that exists in our country.
In our country there was for many years an AT society. It was a society of fans and it was dying. For many years society did not perform any registrations. In England we have near 40 horses. But how many of them, we do not even know, But how many of them, we do not even know, some are purebreds, some are partbreds, they have not been tested. Attempts to be revived this society - have not succeeded. I and my colleague have decided to perform registrations. We have signed a contract with VNIIK and we have a registration service of horses. BUT not everyone has worked with us. Especially former members of the old society. I suggest you to think about the example of our society, how much the new international association is necessary to us. As there are problems every national association, because the absence of uniform management. I wish to add still, that we discussed some distinction in administration managerial control by registration of horses of the different countries. And such distinction exists between the different countries. And we would like to know, what role the international association can play in regulation of these distinctions.
If I wish to register a horse, I have a syringe, I take blood from my horse, I send it to the accredited laboratory and I receive result from this laboratory for my horse. I send results analyses and photos in VNIIK and I receive the passport. Do you trust me, that the passport belongs to this horse?
VNIIK is a big organisation, it manages 17 breeds, including ATs. I am the expert in information technologies. All databases are in my department. I know the breeding registrations of Arabs and TBs, Trakenners and other breeds. To see what is happening to you is very interesting to me.
In other breeds everything is already solved. If to compare with TBs, it is not a private person that takes the blood, it is the representative of studbook that does it, he collects blood, describes, take photographs. He also sends it to specialised laboratory, that is accredited under the international requirements. I would like to specify, the laboratory at the analysis of origin gives ONLY this information, does the foal match their parents mother or not. The laboratory does not do anything else. Our laboratory has all necessary accreditations. I would suggest, that you look closely at the technologies, that are already used.
It seems to me that we have deviated from the subject, let’s try to solve the main problem. Do we want to create an international association, that will be engaged AT in breed of horses? I think, that it is not so important what it will be named. All the same it is necessary to solve it, as for MAAK, the obligatory re-registration has not been made. It should be re-registered according to new conditions such as Niyazov's death. Therefore the organization does not exist according to the law.
Therefore let's bring this question on voting and we will vote: Is necessary this association to us or not. If we vote against, we can go to restaurant or buy vodka, sausages, and somewhere in Sokolniki in park there are places for dinner.
I would like to write on the board very shortly, what will the goals will be for this association. As at many people are own representations about such association.
1) Creation of global information and legal system of registration of horses AT.
2) Creation of uniform system of standards of tests and show
3) Marketing and advertising
4) Creation of investment appeal
Vitaly Andruhovich - YES
Maria Marquise - YES
Leonid Babaev - YES
Alexander Klimuk - YES
Maria Solidad - YES
Tina Wenman - YES
Mino Denti – YES
Sandra Denti – YES
Massimo - YES
Todd Keith- YES
Jessica Keith- YES
Emery Rhodes - YES
Bocharova - YES
Motzar - YES
Serebryakova - YES
Marchuk - YES
Ovljakuli - YES
Fillipov - YES
Kishenko - YES
Osmanov - YES
Zakariev - YES
Dzhaparov - YES
Tarasova - YES
Podobaev (VNIIK) - has told, that has no powers for voting.
Registration and breed management is the prerogative of the state, and you will not be given such function as a special license is necessary.
We create an international association which rules of the state should we consider?
For this purpose and being an international association, that supervises the action of national studbooks. This makes it it comparable to WAHO, and the Weatherby’s. Why should we copy something and someone? We should understand very well, that the Turkmen book will never agree with the state laws of the Russian book. And if we say today, that laws of the Russian Federation should regulate international AT breeding, we will doom in advance this breed to split and division and we will receive 10 studbooks.
If this organisation will work, it will be authoritative, so no problems will arise with the Ministry of Agriculture of any country. Any problems in that the horses born in Russia (or other countries) received documents according to the international requirements. I do not see here the special contradiction.
Jessica Keith in reply to Vassili Podobaev
You brought up a very important question, there are many legal issues, that are necessary to solve. Your experience would be interesting to us. But you should understand, that no country is not obliged will obey to the laws of another country. Each national association should submit first of all to laws of own country, and in the second turn to laws of the international association.
That is not true! 10 years ago, our country began the process of recognition by the international committee of TB studbooks. For this purpose we had to make legislative changes to our Russian laws, so that they have accepted us in the international TB association. It is not that easy.
Misters, I wish to bring clarify. You should understand, that over us there is no international committee. We also are such committee. And except us, there is nobody to solve destiny of this breed. There are different national breeding laws. These laws should obey to the international committee. And in our case, all national laws should obey to that committee, that we wish to create.
It is a big responsibility
We know! We have rescued this breed, when in this country there was a hunger and quotas on bread. The stores were empty and we fed this breed to our horses. How did VNIIK and the state help us at that time? Did they feed our horses? No! Why should we be afraid of responsibility today?
Our agreement is with VNIIK! Therefore if any agreements are accepted with the international association, that will regulate the breed, we should discuss it in the French association. We can change.
I wish to add, that we also have a contract with VNIIK and before we will also have such problems.
I think, that the first point of our goals, (global information system of studbook and registration) can be worked out only in close contact with VNIIK, to develop this system. And until we have seen better, we should not refuse from what is available now.
And if VNIIK will not answer us?
It is necessary to agree, talk and search for ways of interaction!
VNIIK – is a member of almost all international horse-breeding associations. In these organisations VNIIK is represented entirely or the separate registrar of studbook.
Maria Marquise to Vassili Podobaev.
We disagree, as in case of France and England, with our associations there are no representatives, we only have a contract between two legal persons.
I do not speak about national associations, but only the international. You wish to create an organisation, such as WAHO.
Should VNIIK be a member of it?
As the representative of Russia??
It is possible to discuss…
Why should I delegate to VNIIK, to represent me on the international scene? Let VNIIK present itself.
For us it is a little bit other situation, also let's talk about the subject.
I do not know, WAHO or Weatherby’s is? we create the association. We have gathered here breeders from the different countries of the world. AT breeder is very short life. 2-3 generations of foals and you have not time to see results of the work. We do not have time. When will we collect such a team? VNIIK can continue breeding service on registration of AT breed. I as a member of the future organization, I want to receive documents directly from the international organisation. Now we should solve a question on the purposes and missions. What should we take on ourselves? Nothing prevents us from creating a global information system. For everyone to view their own and other horses. Verify its origins. Create regulations, that will be observed by other countries and national associations.
Who approve and disapprove to the purposes and goals? Let's discuss
The legal issues must be investigated by lawyers.
I think, that the breeders should discuss this questions, as it is very important. As time goes, and nothing happens.
Any organisation can create an international database. Also there is no law, that forbids it.
We have now listed 5 missions. Let`s return directly to these points. Are they all necessary? Do we need to add something?
Point 1. Now there is no uniform system, to which all countries submit. According to it, it is necessary to create.
Point 2. Creation of system of tests and show.
Point 3. Marketing and advertising.
Point 4. Creation of information appeal
Point 5. Education.
What is the point - Education?
To us it is important that qualified experts, that can explain, what is breed evaluation is and if we need it or not. What is a purebred AT; what prehistory of conducting studbooks and breeding registration; than it differs from other breeds. The purposes and problems which stand at cultivation of breeding horses. Like elementary questions, but they are very necessary and important. Very big contribution is brought by Julia Kuznetsova, who publishes magazine. And if we have agreed with this section Education in our international association, I would offer madam Kuznetsovu in committee of Enducation. Questions on other points?
I suggest you to expand on the point of test and show.
What do you offer us? We want to have the international association.
We offer these purposes and missions introduce, as the future purposes in the charter of our organisation.
Yes, we agree. As there are no questions.
I have a question. The first point, some opinions have been expressed. Concerning the right to the studbook, creation of information database and so on. I would like to know. Before me is a document that not all participants have seen. I want the truth.
Mariana Marchuk – you are a lawyer
On legitimacy of use of the studbook, which have been issued earlier by VNIIK. When I come into a bookshop and I buy the information (arithmetics textbook). Can I investigate this information on the basis of the multiplication table?
The information on each horse belongs to the owner of a horse. And compilation of this information in the studbook, should be protected by the copyright.
Todd is correct, he who has collected the information in the studbook, has the rights to this information. VNIIK has the right on studbook. Todd has the right on studbook database. It is absolutely lawful.
Misters, we are not focusing. These particulars should be developed and approved by breeding committee. To those people, whom we delegate. And this breeding committee should work in close contact with VNIIK. We need to be defined now what is unnecessary and what is not enough in our purposes and missions.
Voice from the meeting
Explain investment appeal
It is the people, who wants buy an AT horse. He should get a platform for execution of all his ambitions.
I suggest that we to vote for the list of the purposes and goals, which will face in our organisation. If you do not have other additions, I would like to bring this question on voting.
Against – No one
Not voted Nadja Tarasova, Natalia Shabashova and Maria Marquise
YES- the rest of the participants, see list of participants above
Jessica Keith on membership.
I wish to present different categories of membership.
Founders of this initiative have asked me to study the structure of WAHO. So therefore I present, this very open offer.
Full members - have the right of 1 individual voice. We suggest, that the owner of a minimum oft 5 mares became of such member. The owner of less than 5 mares can become the full member or national association. The reason, to why we offer such memberships (national and individually). We wish to offer more choice, for example, in the case a breeder does not agree with the national association.
5 or 90 mares is one voice?
The national association can choose the delegate and allocate him right of vote?
We wish to grant wider rights to the breeders. If he does not have consent with national association, he has the right to choose higher structure for himself. And to represent himself independently.
Other members of association.
Associative members - can be the body corporate or non- AT associations. They express support, but have no votes.
Honorary members - for merits in breed. Does not have a vote.
What is the honorary member, and in what him sense, if there is no vote?
For example, you have brought the big contribution, but now do not participate in it. Therefore to you is granted the right to be the honorary member.
Question from a hall
Why two backup positions - associative and honourable?
Associative members - there can be associations. And honourable are at will of participants, by voting.
Let's return to voices. I correctly understand, that registrars of studbook, VNIIK and livestock specialists, who define a policy in the studfarm, but are not owners of horses - drop out of these categories? Such people, how Ryabova, Serebryakova, Chemidov and others?
That is as to me, as beginner it is enough to buy 5 cheap, mediocre horses, and to receive a vote, and people, who have devote a life for this breed - have lost voices. Very silly!
The main registrar of studbook should have the right to vote!
I don`t mind. Let the registrar of studbook have a vote.
I am against! It turns out, that each registrar of studbook from each country will have the right to vote. Who are they? They are hired people - officials. Their business is to register horses and to receive for it money. Most of them are not important.
A voice from the participants
My experience from trotters - from the country is brought a nominee with a vote. Propose a nominee from the country and vote for it on national association.
Who are you and what is your relation to the AT breed?
Voice from a hall
The international association of trotters
Now it is much more interesting for me to hear opinion of those people, who works with AT breed. Opinion of the breeders, who invests money in this breed.
How do you define merits of the person?
Someone who has invested money and votes.
Serjabrjakova and Motzar
Do not agree with voice assignment by quantity of mares! And what to do by those, who investsmoney in sports and has only high quality sports stallions. For example as at Andruhovich - depot of stallions. Why would such people be deprived of a vote? Or Kulygin, who owns only stallions.
Let's define by quantity of horses.
And may be in NATO? Elective presidium from dear people (open voting of breeders) and each national association - one delegate. Purely, openly and excludes suppression of one coalition.
Personal membership will weaken national associations!
Categorically I do not agree with the offer as in NATO.
To consider by quantity of horses.
Nadja Tarasova adds
adult - breeding livestock, which are used in breeding. And in general this question needs to be to improve. Now we will not develop a position, but only we will lose the time.
I suggest to define a group of persons, which will find the comprehensible decision concerning membership.
I suggest this group to prepare introduction conditions in members in Association.
HAVE voted unanimously. Working language - English
The supreme body - conference, time in two years. HAVE voted Unanimously
Representation and operating body – Committee of directors and the Chairman of committee of directors. Is is necessary to have influential and capable the person to open offices and to solve questions with acknowledgement of our documents. Mrs. Ryabova is absent today – this creates big problems for us. Because, if we wish to take breed in our hand, certainly we should solve all questions in the Ministries of Agriculture of the countries. If VNIIK was loyal in this relation, considering that VNIIK has spent corresponding work in the some countries. And if we do not find with them understanding, we should do all this work anew. Therefore at the initiative group actually did not have a nominee, which would solve this question. And the Chairman of board of directors needs to be selected later. For now to appoint from among of committee of directors – acting person. Except committee of directors to us saw the establishment of four committees or departments.
Breeding department - the most important. As it is breeding department should develop general regulations all over the world. This breeding department will develop all regulations: for example from a taking of biotests etc., descriptions, laboratories. That is all should be described COMPLETELY by rules. And rules are worked out by this department.
The second committee or department is a committee on the organisation of actions and sponsorship. According to plan-financial. These are two values inseparably linked among themselves.
The third committee - the Jockey Club.
The fourth committee - Education.
The fifth committee - Public Relations.
What committee grants the license for judges?
Education committee. There are enough of committees?
Discussions of committee of directors and participants of committee
I will name now a surname, which are written and at once to vote
It is illegitimate, as voting rules, when the constitutions of the organisation are not defined.
Then it will be temporary committee of directors
In our suggested constitutions, the member of committee of directors or a member of committee does not have, to have the right to vote, for example, if they do not have 5 mares. First of all it should be competent people.
So, Committee of directors
1 – Klimuk (Russia) - unanimously
2 - Osmanov (Russia) - unanimously
3 – Jessica Keith (USA) - unanimously
4 - Jean de Bannes (France) - unanimously
5 - Ryabova (Russia) - unanimously
6 - Shabashova Natalia (Russia) - unanimously
7 - Herbert Blatt (Germany) - unanimously
8 - Peter Maresova (Czechia) - unanimously
9 - Kamal Mirhodzhaev (Uzbekistan) - unanimously
10 - Mino Denti (Italy) - unanimously
11 - Babaev Leonid (Russia)- 99 % (Maria Marquise voted NO)
Let the committee of directors will choose among themselves acting chairman.
1 - Alexander Klimuk - unanimously
2 - Marina Serebryakova - unanimously
3 - Tatyana Ryabova - unanimously
4 - Habib Dzhaparov - unanimously - itself against
5 - Todd Keith - unanimously
6 – Christoph Vogel - unanimously
7 - Petra Maresova - unanimously
8 - Mino Denti - unanimously
9 - Jean de Bannes - unanimously
Maria Marquise - it is correct, that in committee of directors and breeding committee are the same people? And the basis for such quantity of people in breeding committee?
There will be a lot of work, therefore we need to us all people.
Committee of sponsorship and on the organisation of show. According to plan-financial committee
1 - Babaev - unanimously
2 - Jessica Keith - unanimously
3 - Maria Solidad - unanimously
4 - Ovaz Ismailov - unanimously
5 - Osmanov Abdurahman - unanimously
6 - Shabashova Natalia - unanimously
7 - Carol Magalova – did not accept nomination
The Jockey Club
1 - Klimuk - unanimously
2 - Ovaz Ismailov - unanimously
3 – Jessica Keith - unanimously
4 - Osmanov Abdurahman - unanimously
5 - Ryabova Tatyana - unanimously
6 - Mino Denti - unanimously
7 - Dzhaparov Habib - unanimously
8 - Sabine Toepfer Gerbert - unanimously
1 - Irina Khienkina - unanimously
2 - Ryabova Tatyana - unanimously
3 - Sabine Toepfer Gerbert - unanimously
4 - Maria Marquise - unanimously
5 – Julia Kuznetsova - unanimously
Committee on public relations
1 - Mino Denti - unanimously
2 - Jessica Keith - unanimously
3 - Sigrid Hauser Berndt - unanimously
4 - Maria Marquise - unanimously
5 - Kamal Mirhodzhaev - unanimously
6 - Blanca de Toledo - unanimously
7 – Tina Wenman - unanimously
8 - Wang Zhenshan (China) - unanimously
In each committee it will be necessary to choose the chairman.
We considered very many nominees and it seems to us, let it will be temporary till membership definition, and we wish to appoint on the post of chief executive - Tarasova Nadja. I believe, that such fine horses - Akhal-teke, which on the fact are the supergoods. I do not believe, that our organisation can be poor, it needs to give only a push. At us now crisis and to us are necessary the top-managers, which are crisis managing directors.
Have voted unanimously.
Misters - thanks, but I refuse. Is ready to help, than I can. But I not want of this post. I already spoke about it! And in general at first it is necessary to outline a circle of powers and duties, and then to offer a post.
Really. Our constitutions are not prepared. They need to be prepared. Let’s suggest that Tarasova is the co-ordinator of the organisation at this stage.
Let's not consider, that it is the constant director. While it is a temporary post.
By the way, about the preparation of constitutions and so on. You have not outlined the terms. You have not appointed approximate date of the following meeting.
Debate concerning dates and so on.
In the conclusion a word to Todd Keith.
I wish to tell about the database, that I created. It consists of all horses from studbook 3 to 9. In the database there is information about stallions and mares, names, pedigrees, colours etc, the information is in Russian and in English.
Also there are measurements and it functions so that it is possible to show height over withers of all horses and to distribute them on increasing and so on. I also have created availability to a database through the open Internet. The system is that, that if you enter into the database, you have your own section, in which are your horses are. You add the mares, the stallions and you can concentrate searches on your horses. Also it is possible at a choice of one sire to see all his offspring. Is possible addition of photos and the information on a horse (results and so on) as well as breed evaluations and show results. There is also a function, if the person enters data about some horse, only this person can change all entered data. Thus, if the horse entered into a database by you is sold, you can transfer the updating rights to other user - to the buyer. The system is that, info can be added, but acknowledgement on purity can be made only by the administrator of the database. And certainly it would be good in the future to print official documents, if info is already entered and all results are received. For example will be possibility to make printout of documents. Thank you.
The temporary president is necessary to all of us.
Meetinga about election of temporary president – candidacy Osmanov
Thanks for the rendered trust, but I offer this post to mr. Klimuk, as most the competent and dear expert.
Klimuk has refused and has suggested to fix time and a place of following gathering, that to discuss this question.
The meeting was closed at 17.25
Addendum made by Jessica Eile- Keith on September 3, 2008 after reading the English version.
Mariana Marchuk and Jessica Eile-Keith were appointed to finalise and present the constitutions to the committees within a month.
Added Ms Shabashova to the list of participants.
Addendum made by Jessica Eile-Keith after email reminder from Mino Denti on September 3, 2008
Mr Massimo Biazzi attended the meeting but was not listed among the participants, only among voters. I have added him as participant.
Please email jessica at karakumstud.com if you like to have a copy of the Russian meeting protocol.