this campaign allowed to be held on a public AT forum has in my opinion harmed the breed and the campaingers more than us. Anyways I left this forum now as I actually have better things to do than lower myself to the gutter level of human communication.
However what the whole thing has been about is if an elite grading of one of our horses was official or not, later on it was turned into being MAAK approved or not etc, etc, the war went on from the campaigners to why we did not advertise our stallion in their catalogue and why we did not market other US breeders when we were interviewed in equestrian magazines, bizarre to say the least, if we are the bad guys why the heck would they want us to:
1. advertise with them
2. share the genes of our horses with them
3 mention them when when were interviewed
well, well all this started off when we announced that Rosanna would be cover girl for Breyers introduction of a new Teke model horse. Thank you the US AT community for the gratulations!

Here anyways is what should have been my last message to the Yahoo list, after some considerations though, I as I mentioned above decided to leave the list and will publish the letter on my blog instead. Here you go (hopefully it will spinn off some interesting thoughts and ideas for a future informed dialogue on the problems and solutions to the internationalisation of the Teke breed:

Within the EU the status of the mother studbook is protected, in other words, if a breed has its mother studbook in the EU, another country within the EU is not allowed to grade the horses belonging to this mother studbook differently than the mother studbook states, for example if the mother studbook states that a mare (normally broodmares that have one registered foal are eligible for grading before being entered into the appropriate section of the studbook, stallions are more seldom graded but tested as they have to be approved for production for the studbook before they have registered offspring.).

Before EU, each country that set up breeding plans, registries and studbooks for non-domestic breed where free to do so without having to follow any rules, standards or recommendations from the mother studbooks or international umbrella organisations. This was not unusual and has been the case for many non domestic breeds in Sweden. The Swedish breed association normally set up their own registration, studbook rules as well as breed plans, Swedish judges where used to work often with judges from the country of origin of the breed but the rules for approval etc where set up according to Swedish horse breeding tradition. I have already mention that there are no global horse breeding organisations, approved by any- and everyone to certify anything.

This led to the fact that individuals that by the mother studbook for example would have been inscribed into the main studbook where cassated in Sweden as they did not fulfil Swedish requirement for genetical soundness or correctness of the exterior, two criteria that according to Swedish horse breeding traditions have been considered very important, so important that stallions that did not fulfil those requirements were not allowed to be used in breeding to external mares. Akhal-Teke stallions approved by their Russian studbook (mother studbook) had until 2006 to apply for a breeding license from the Swedish State via The Swedish Akhal-Teke Association. Did they not pass State Approvals arranged annually they would not be granted a breeding license in Sweden. The Swedish State Approvals focus on soundness, the stallions must be free from genetical defects according to a list annually published by the Swedish Ministry of Agriculture, the stallions must have a correct conformation, the stallions must be shown under rider and prove to have a temperament under rider to be suitable for breeding. Today still after new EU rules have been applied, I would say that few, with knowledge and experience in horse breeding would disagree with the fact that Holland and Sweden still have the strictest rules for horse breeding in the world when it comes to keep horse breeds sound and free from defects that both affect the fertility of horses as well as their wellbeing and usabillity.

New EU rules have come into effect and as with new international rules they have to be tested and understood before they can be fully interpreted and implemented by the users. In 2003 and 2004 there were a few cases in Sweden were national associations had to change their rules for studbook and approval status for individuals within a breed. One quite known case that involved UK was about the Welsh breed. So today in 2007 Swedish breed associations cannot imply just any rule for inscription into their national studbook if that rule is not in compliance with the rules for the mother studbook IF the mother studbook is in the EU.

IF the mother studbook is outside the EU countries it has no such protection and a Swedish breed association has their only obligation for fulfil against the Swedish Ministry of Agriculture to prove that they work for and approve genetically sound, correct and good tempered horses. A Swedish breed association is free to set up and apply their own set of rules for classifications/gradings, registrations, studbooks etc. An Akhal-Teke graded during a show arranged by the only association approved by the Swedish State to manage the breed, in our case The Swedish Akhal-Teke Association, is the ONLY association in Sweden that CAN grade Akhal-Tekes. Paikhas is bred, born, registered and elite graded in Sweden, not in Russia not in the USA not in Denmark. I have, not yet seen one comment RELEVANT to this fact.

The Swedish AT association could have elected to work completely with Swedish judges to grade our Tekes, this was our choice and it would not have affected the gradings official status. Being a young organisations with a breed unknown to Sweden we did chose to use Russian judges with an experience in the breed, its management and evaluation. We did also chose to use a judge from what we consider being the country of ORIGIN of the Teke breed, a Turkmen breeder and official of the breed in Turkmenistan. ( A sidenote to this it would be interested to compare the validity of a the studbook in Russia and the studbook being set up in the country of origin) This choise gave the breed a flying start in Sweden the breed show generated a large amount of national press coverage and in the SWEDISH equestrian community the breed association begun building an image of being serious and devoted to the development of the breed in Sweden.

How does this affect the quality of Paikhas, she is elite graded by a national Akhal-Teke association approved by the State to be the ONE and ONLY organisation in this country to perform gradings. Neither MAAK nor VNIIK are allowed to perform gradings in Sweden. Neither The Swedish Akhal-Teke association were in 1998 or 2003 nor KaraKum Akhal-Teke were members of MAAK. VNIIK is not a membership organisation but a national State run and financed horse breed association that has no official status in Sweden. I have not yet on this forum read ANYTHING RELEVANT from anyone who claims that they have WORKED with this QUESTIONS in any way that would make them QUALIFIED to make RELEVANT COMMENTS on this matter.

Paikhas is born bred and elite graded in a country that is UNIQUE when it comes to protect and maintain breed soundness, correctness and workability in their horses. Paikhas' father is ONE OF THREE Akhal-Teke stallions IN THE WORLD that has gone through and passed one of the, toughest State level managed and monitored tests for stallions. Paikhas was not only elite graded she was so by the MOST SUCCESSFUL BREEDERS OF AKHAL-TEKES in the world, we could have chosen to use Swedish judges and the gradings would have been as official.

We have NEVER advertised Paikhas as a MAAK- graded horse. I do not know how and were such gradings are performed, I do not understand that organisation at all. I am PROUD to not have had any involvement with an association that completely lack basic democratic functions and, until his death has had Saparmurad Niazov ELECTED as president, ESPECIALLY after he sent one of our friends and one of the few grand people within this breed in prison to be tortured.

I am aware of the fact that the international rules and regulations are not ideal and very complex to understand. Most breed associations realise the complexity as well as the fact that national breed associations must take national rules in considerations first. Only an INFORMED DIALOGUE can progress this breed's internationalisation forward.

The advisors that the present owner of Paikhas have used that volunteered to help her understand the value of the horse, that she paid $8 000 for, could obviously not even read and interpret the very simple goal with the Yahoo mailing list cited below nor the etiquette of my blog:

"This mailing list is dedicated to the promotion and advancement of the ancient oriental breed of horse known as the Akhal-Teke."

neither could they nor the owner of Paikhas interpret or respect the few very straight forward rules for the Yahoo mailing list:

THE PROMOTION OF THE AKHAL-TEKE.

The Akhal-Teke List
Posting Principles

I promise not to sound far more intelligent in print than I am in person, thus leading people to think my advice is worth far more than it is.

I promise to address the original question posted, not turn it around to fit some campaign I'm on.

I promise not to add everyone else to my dirty joke list.

I promise not to talk condescendingly to another list member as if I am the authority on all matters, since obviously the "authorities on all matters" prefer to lurk, and by posting in the first place I am admitting my ignorance.

If a new subscriber asks a question which has been re-hashed 100 times, someone experienced post to the list: "I'll take this one" and answer them.

I will be free with my praise. I will send a "good one" note to those who deserve it.

I will share knowledge.

Me and Todd have been abused too long on the Yahoo list, and we will have everything written about us on this list evaluated by professionals in the realms of what is considered defamation and libel, and will if we get the advice, act accordingly. I can only add that this is the last thing we would like to spend our efforts on.
Since we moved to the US we have asked nothing from the US Akhal-Teke community and we have received nothing - but, obvious to you list members scorn and open hostility.
I consider it pointless for me to continue defending myself against this campaign, this is not a court room but a mailing list for the promotion of the breed and the latest campaign led by a few self appointed judges and experts on everything will lead to more than severe damage to this breed and therebye its breeders.

If you have sincere interested questions about this breed, feel free to ask me on my blog (you just have to follow a few simple guidelines for blog etiquette) or privately or follow the diary of our stud farm or just "hang-out" with us there. Both Todd and I have a lot to share, this we have always done and will continue to.

1. Allegra Steck01/01/2007 13:56:49

Jessica, Jessica, Jessica,

When are you going to learn to play with others ? :)

I have to say I am very disappointed that you have chosen to take your toys and go home, unsubscribing from the List. I cannot understand why it OK for you to post questions to be answered, yet when questions are posted to you you choose to leave rather than explain your reasoning. You always ask for change, and openness, and transparency, now that there is discussion as to how to go about it, you decide to run back home for the protection of your Blog, where those who offer differing opinions are not allowed to be heard from. You decry censorship in the AT world, and in Turkmenistan, yet you promote it here. Why the double standard ? How is an INFORMED DIALOGUE if you choose who is allowed to inform and who is not ?

I did not enter the fray about the sale of Paikhas because I feel that is entirely between you and Dasha Cole, it is neither personally or professionally any of my business. Not one word did I write about any part of it, although I am sorry that you left the list before I had a chance to respond to Dasha's latest post, which will happen later today, I will bcc it to you in case you are interested. When given enough rope, she will hang herself. However, you yourself felt it necessary to drag myself and my horse into it when it has been pointed out that there were many other examples that could have been used instead of mine, and that you have acted in exactly the same way as I have. I answered all of your questions. Why can you not answer mine ?

With regards to the Swedish A-T Show, I think it is important that the differences in each country's requirements be pointed out. There are no governmental regulations or as you use " national rules" on horse-breeding or national Associations in the US, therefore we are open to setting up anything the way we like. I think you would have received a great deal more understanding as to why you set up the Swedish show the way you did if you would have posted the explanation above on the maillist for everyone to see. We here in the US have the chance to set up our next grading tour however we see fit, and your experience and input could have been extremely helpful if not offered in a condescending or patronizing way.

Also, no one asked you to market other American breeders in your article(s). I simply asked why you did not mention the acheivements of other American Tekes that came prior to yours. Why you chose to take that as a personal insult shows just how thin your skin has become, and how you can make a mountain out of a molehill when you want to claim foul. Do not read more into something than what is there.

The American Akhal-Teke community has reached out to you, specifically in regards to your stallion, as I have been told you were asked if you wished to include him in the publication of the Stallion Register, which is not performed under the umbrella of the ATAA and by including him would not in any way imply you had a connection with the ATAA, which you have made abundantly clear you do not wish to. You continue to publish comments about the West not producing enough quality horses, yet you have one you feel is quality, and you believe will produce quality, so if you are committed to improving the breed outside the CIS why would you not make every attempt to do so ? You separate yourself from the rest of us deliberately, so please do not play the martyr card here. You and Todd have not been "abused" on the Yahoo list. You have not been asked any harder questions that you yourself ask to others, and that we on the LIst often ask each other. We also did not introduce Dasha Cole to the world of the Akhal-Teke, please keep that in mind as well. Hers is the only "open hostility" that has been present towards you, and it is being dealt with by the list moderators. I asked questions of you that you had not heard before, likely, with regards to Heather Blackmore, and others, as I thought you deserved a chance to know what was being said and that you might like a chance to clear the air, in a true public forum. You chose not to even answer, much less deny what I have heard, so what should that lead me and others to believe ? I truly hope that elitism is not what you are trying to promote within this breed. You do indeed have a great deal to offer, and I hope that you will continue to try to do so, keeping in mind that compromise is the only way to acheive a common goal. I just wonder if you see it as a common goal any more, as your actions speak loudly otherwise.

Best,
Allegra

2. Sara Drake01/01/2007 15:29:14

Todd and Jessica,

I am going to invite you to post exactly what you wrote above back on the Forum, because this was just the explanation we had been waiting for. How national associations can relate to MAAK and the differences between countries is important to know. Asking all these questions - apart from the Dasha thing - is not an assault on you but trying to understand and work on the issues. So please return as you see fit, and continue to make your contributions, which are quite welcome. Truly!
Have a happy New Year!
Sara

3. maria01/01/2007 16:19:53

Allegra, there is an expectation sometimes that "knowledge, intelligence, ambition, success, diplomacy, piousness, kindness, generosity, modesty, brilliance, honesty, self-promotion and objectivity" can all be combined in a single person. In real people, they are not. There are some great players in a given field who are high achievers, have expert knowledge and keen judgement and who are also modest, self-effacing, diffident and conciliatory. There are others who are judgemental, subjective, passionate, unfair and self-adulatory. There are also many others to whom none of the above apply and there are many in-betweens. I hope Jessica will not take my remarks personally or in the wrong way - I am not trying to attach any specific adjectives to her person here! But I have observed a certain lack of readiness on the part of the Yahoo AT commununity to take the rough with the smooth when dealing with Jessica, much to the detriment of the stated "common goals". I am neither amibitious, nor successful myself but I have a razor-sharp tongue which had gotten me into trouble many a time (though it doesn't tend to surface so much when I talk about our beloved AT), so I have always had a sympathy with Jessica on those grounds. I am also the daughter of a great musician who must have hurt more people in his life than there are Akhal-Teke horses in the world but who is a great musician nevertheless. Insightful and subjective at the same time. Generous and cruel. Meticulous and impatient. I am still a member of Yahoo list, so can express my views on gradings etc in that forum and Jessica is quite entitled to block this post on the blog, if she considers it inappropriate. I guess this is something in a way of a wish for the New Year - the wish that some controversial people are granted the right to be themselves.

4. shael01/01/2007 16:28:01
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

Where is adress of this Yahoo mailing list?
Everytime I ask russians, wich have visited Studs outside of CIS about akhalteke horses. And everybody answeres: "low then average or shit". Thay say that horses wich were bought "may be", the next generations are nothing. Jessica and may be Mini Denti only can breed the next good generation.
I see, mostly, you can speak. Where are your "good" horses?
Grading, grading, of what?

5. Kerri-Jo Stewart01/01/2007 16:49:20
Homepage: http://Akhal-Teke.ca

Hi Leonid,
I have attempted to e-mail you but the e-mail addresses on your web page don't work. Can you please e-mail me so I can get your correct e-mail.
I love all the photos you post and I would appreciate some breeding advice/buying advice from you.
Thanks!
Kerri-Jo

6. shael01/01/2007 17:01:27
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

info@shael-teke.ru
leonid@shael-teke.ru

7. Kerri-Jo Stewart01/01/2007 17:59:37
Homepage: http://Akhal-Teke.ca

thanks -

and who is Mini Denti?

8. Jessica01/01/2007 18:03:54

Hello Sara,
Welcome to the blog. As you can see the moderator of the Yahoo list has already made up her mind about me and what I say, and maybe what she expresses is also the general impression from the members of the Yahoo list.
It would not matter what I would write on the Yahoo list. If you want to know something from someone and get an answer you ask a question, I was not asked questions I was accused for being a liar. Maybe I should have understood already from the first inflammatory emails what this was all about, maybe I should have stayed away from the Yahoo list.
Well on the bright side I have noticed that there is a growing interest for this breed in the USA and we are very happy that our horses have been so well received here in Florida by the equestrian community.
Feel free to pop by my blog whenever you like to!

9. Jessica01/01/2007 18:08:52

Maria, thank you for trying. No offense take at all, I think what you wrote made a lot of sense, something I have not experienced in a few non sense days, thanks again.

10. Jessica 01/01/2007 18:16:27

Thanks for the support Leonid, as a friend I would not recommend you to join the Yahoo list, it is not a good place if you are not behaving accordingly to a very strict but yet flexible moral code, in other words not a place for people like us!

11. Allegra Steck01/01/2007 18:17:54

Jessica,

Perhaps you would care to point out where I called you a liar ?

And I am curious as to what I have made up my mind about ?

Allegra

12. Maria01/01/2007 18:23:15

Kerri-Jo, Mino (rather than Mini) Denti is an Italian breeder of Akhal-Teke. Amrita has two mares he has bred. His stallion is called Myzar - "lo stalloncino del circo". There might be pictures of Myzar which are better than those on the website http://xoomer.alice.it/midenti/index.htm

Mino - as I concluded on the basis of just one brief encounter - is just as subjective, opinionated, passionate and selective in his dealings with amateur AT enthusiasts as the rest of the prominent AT breeders. Don't let this put you off!

13. Darya01/01/2007 18:29:31
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

I am quite dissapointed. Not in anyone in particular, but with the whole thing. So much noise because of nothing, such a big waste of valuable energy that can be better spent. I really wish we could all work together. Leonid is right, there is a lot of room for improvement and people are more busy arguing rather than working together to achieve something. What a shame.

14. Jessica01/01/2007 18:35:42

Allegra, where did you read "Allegra called me a liar" try to ask me if you do not understand instead of twist everything I say, you are not the only member of the Yahoo list.

15. Jessica 01/01/2007 18:46:03

Darya, you are up late!
You are right, I feel exhausted and a little bit discouraged myself after what happened on the Yahoo list and actually here right before Christmas. We were so happy about the Rosanna pictures with Breyer. I think it is difficult though, to avoid conflicts in places where many cultures and many experiences and opinions gather without meeting face to face. However, these gatherings may well serve to eventually find the people who have the qualities needed to work together for breed improvements and international cooperation. And if you listen carefully through all the buzz, you will find some really nice and good people. Didn't you meet Maria on this blog for example!

16. Darya01/01/2007 18:57:35
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

Now you sound very encouraging! Maria is a blessing and was doing just the same couple of days ago helping me take Dom on the road for the first time. I know it might sound like a small thing but the amount of effort (more emotional) that went into it really was massive and it feels like a really big achievement, as we are one step further now. There is a report on my web by the way... I do hope something good actually works out of all this and I guess the trick is to stay positive. They say in Russia that you will spend a year the way you started it, I wish it is not true in this list situation... And yes, I am going to bed now...

17. Tabitha01/02/2007 08:44:37

Sorry to hear you left the list.
Your comments taught me a lot as did the responses.
The accusations seemed to come from only 1 person. The others only asked questions to educate themselves on the grading/studbook material in general and to find a way to make things better for the breed.

Thank you for replying those. Sorry that Yahoo-list wont benefit from your knowledge anymore.

It is said that you decided to leave the hundreds of people over there only because of 1 person.
The list owner already gave a warning about that subject. So (regarding your letter above) I fail to see why you think the moderators agree with that person. But well it's your choice and we have to respect that.

Hope this issue will soon be gone by and you can continue enjoying your wonderfull horses again.

18. Hans-Jurg Buss01/02/2007 12:30:51

Returned from very busy days with my horses I did not have the time to read all the comments on this issue. But I think Jessica has the right to retire from this so called Yahoo List, which I never visited. Why should she share her knowledge with that people? And if the person accusing her is that Dasha I "know" from this blog it would be better for the breed to not give her anymore room for her presumptuous ego-trips. Let her cry, do not answer.

Why the hell whithin this small breed there are so many good-for-nothing persons engaged?

19. Chris02/27/2007 13:03:09

Ouch, good-for-nothing? perhaps just ignorant, or romantic, or idealistic. Very easy to be swayed to one point of view or another until you have heard most of them (not all, it's not possible!) and make a judgment on your own, mistakes be damned. I cannot believe the Russian or Turkmenian or Kazakh breeders would export their best horses. And do believe that a breed is built on its GELDINGS, too many crappy stallions don't help. So certain Teke breeders need to get over the "every shard of bloodline is valuable" hump. Learn from the AQHA that built its breed on geldings AND then (in "halter" bloodlines) proceeded to breed for physical type damaging the breed, from which they have yet to admit the need to recover. Also learn how to set up a registry and promote shows, RACING, activities. The ability of any horse to excel in open competition is based on the money the owner has to throw at it, and in breed competition it's also marketing, marketing, other breeders' horses are crap, unless they came from your stud. Doesn't matter what you read, the truth is really obscure. How AHA and AQHA (or any breed) accept such enormous and diverse egos into one organization is remarkable! Please don't let the people dedicated to this breed fight! Help us understand complex issues! Try to understand your mutual goals! Please don't fragment or polarize this little Teke pond! How can interested people learn? Please try to maintain the best and purest of the AT bloodlines! And remember, there are just too many words out there and anyone may post anything, leading to the degradation of information. That's my same old stump. Who the heck am I? A confused observer who asks questions (and is learning a lot) who wishes posting was not just another conversational MENSA test. Thank you! Best to all, Chris

20. Jessica02/27/2007 16:59:44

Chris, I have not yet seen a person asking a question being treated badly here or anywhere else, I have seen though, quite a few stupid and beyond stupid, rude and straight out insulting remarks from people who are very well aware of their own ignorance but just cannot ask straight questions because their goal is to cause split and aggressions.
Horse breeding is beautiful and complex, sometimes it takes many words to explain to make sure that your words are not twisted by those with bad intentions. To bad and yes time could be used for more creative activities.
Other breeds have a balance of people with visions, doers, academics, big thinkers, backyard breeders, idiots, opportunists.
This breed is not in balance, why, I am as confused as you are over this fact, and I think this breed deserves a better faith than small people fighting over small things causing the slow death of a grand breed.