I put them here to make sure that no one will miss the opportunity to look at some really, really nice Tekes.

1. Blanca09/03/2006 15:29:04

Thanks a lot, Leonid!

Definitely, Equiros deserves a visit!

Who is No. 16 of the Planernaya show? I guess No. 3 is Dragun. Somebody told me he was dead...

2. Leonid09/04/2006 02:13:15
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Blanca, I don't understand what means №16. I don't know, that Dradun was dead.

3. Blanca09/04/2006 04:24:45

I mean the horse who bears a badge with No. 16 in his head...

4. Leonid09/04/2006 05:35:21
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

That was Garayusup (Manghyt-Oprava)

5. Blanca09/04/2006 07:47:25

What an excellent stallion was Mangyt...able to produce such incredible offspring

6. Leonid09/04/2006 09:53:21
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Only this one.

7. Blanca09/04/2006 10:11:08

Well, I like also Margush, for instance.

8. Leonid09/04/2006 14:42:11
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

I did not see this horse.

9. Heather Mahoney09/05/2006 11:43:03

Leonid,
Thank you for the photos! They only made me more regretful to not have been able to attend this year, but MORE determined to be there next year!

Blanca,
Funny that you should ask about Garayusup. It was coming across his picture that first attracted me to the breed, and led me down the path of learning about the amazing Akhal-Teke! My only complaint about him is that apparently he is a crypto. :-

The pictures were wonderful, and thank you, Jessica, for making them so readily available for viewing!

Heather

10. Leonid09/05/2006 12:15:00
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

What means cripto?

11. Todd Keith09/05/2006 12:19:14
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com

Mean a one baller!

12. Leonid09/05/2006 12:31:14
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

It is eanough for football game.
I don't understand why peaple try to find spots on the Sun.

13. Heather Mahoney09/05/2006 13:39:43

Leonid,
Please do not take offense. I think him a gorgeous animal, and it is very true that as I said it was Garayusup's picture that led me to explore AT's. We may have different philosophies about breeding and "defects" (the judging of which we may disagree upon), but arguing puts me at a great disadvantage, as you are established in the AT world, and I am nobody, and must try and keep you as my friend until I get to visit Moscow next year!
Thank you again for the Equiros pictures. They made me quite jealous of anyone who managed to attend.
Heather

14. Leonid09/05/2006 13:57:24
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Heather are you american?

15. Heather Mahoney09/05/2006 14:11:00

My family rather recently emigrated to the US, in comparison to most in America, but I was in fact born here. With our current president, being American is not something I can currently feel very proud about (and that's all the political bashing I'll stoop to), but yes I am. My dad's family moved here from Scotland, and my mother's from Sicily.

Am I now on your black list for mentioning crypto about Garayusup? I hope we can amicably agree to disagree.

Heather

16. Leonid09/05/2006 14:17:17
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

America has a greatist traditions in the thourobred breeding. Ask this breeders about criptos.

17. Heather Mahoney09/05/2006 14:35:54

Here is my personal opinion, just briefly, and I will preface it by saying that I because it is a personal opinion, I am not claiming to be "right" in all matters:

When I was a kid my family was involved with Bullmastiff dogs. We had a beautiful male that won many competitions (like Westminster, etc.) and had beautiful offspring that also won many international competitions. However, the male's line (despite their huge success) had a pattern of cardio-myopothy, and many of them died at the age of 6 or 7. For that reason my dad would not breed them, and many people were upset because they were so successful as working, obedience and show animals.

For me, before I would invest in the offspring of a crypto, I would want to research the possible impact that such a characteristic might have down the road. For instance, are their other more serious health issues that may be commonly seen with cryptos, or is it a benign characteristic? It does not mean Garayusup is not a beautiful successful horse. Only that for my own purposes I would have to learn much more about any possible consequences of crypto-orchidism before I invested in that line. And, to be fair, science may eventually show that there are no serious side effects to a crypto, but it cannot be considered 100% "normal" and therefore is reason (to me) to pause and consider.

Heather

18. Leonid09/05/2006 14:47:50
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Go ahead! In this way you never get Yazaydym, you will lose in breeding Karayusup and so on.

19. Heather Mahoney09/05/2006 15:16:27

Leonid,
First, surely you recognize there is a difference between saying "I would never" and "I would stop to first consider." I am not saying I would NEVER invest in their offspring - only that I first would have to consider many factors to feel secure. Perhaps, you could tell me that in your personal experience you see no additional consequences to cryptos, if you feel this is so, and it may be.
Secondly, do you support or discourage the investor from trying to educate themselves as much as possible before passing final judgment? For instance, I will readily admit that I am no expert in AT's, but my experience with other breeds makes me eager to learn much about ALL aspects of this breed (including the occurrence of crypto) before I feel educated enough to take on the task of actively looking for an investment. While I admire your work with AT's, and have heard you spoken well of among other AT breeders, it is discouraging to feel that you think my desire to be educated on this subject is to my detriment.
Heather

20. Maria09/05/2006 17:46:00

Heather,

I think it's good when people want to get educated about the breed. But let's put things our education into perspective.

Garayusup is one of the most spectacular representatives of the AT breed living today. He is the only off-spring of his parents and as his sire is dead, the chances of breeding a horse comparable to Garayusup are lowered. It is reasonable to discuss whether criptos should or should not be encouraged in the breed in general. Nobody can forbid a healthy discussion.

But why do these things get brought up in connection with a particular animal who, surely, should be bred, if at all possible, simply because he himself is so exceptional! Even if in general the breed might want to discourage critos.

Just the other day someone said to me, when I enthused about seeing Garayusup live at the Moscow show:"I heard he cannot be bred". I had to laugh because Alexander Klimuk was telling me at the show that, although he had sold Garayusup to a friend, he is happy that he is able to send mares to him every year. And his off-spring will be racing this year for the first time.

I was bowled over by seeing Garayusup live. He is a stunning achievement of modern AT breeding. How such perfection was achieved and how can at least some of it can be repeated should be the subject of our discussion.

Let's leave criptorchism for another, more general topic - dogs, horses....

21. Jessica09/05/2006 18:49:48

The moment you see the perfect Teke you know it, this image, this feeling will stay with you for the rest of your life. The best examples of this breed are more than horses, this you will know and feel once you have met one of these magnificent steeds.
There are no other horse breeds in the world that have been called so many poetical names by writers from the Antiques, from China. The sacred horse, the heavenly horse, the elite horse, the rainbow colored horse with the shimmer of the sunrise...
Seeing and feeling an excellent Teke is poetry. It is beautiful.
I belong to the lucky ones that have seen and felt a few moments of poetry with these steeds.
I think that all of us that have experienced Garaysup feel that the faults he might have are all erased by his greatness.
If Garayusup got Heather interested in this breed and made her start her quest for her Teke its great and if she is now exploring the breed from her own references that's her way and she should be respected for that.
In some western countries breeding cryptorchids is tabu.
Within the Teke breed it is not, within the Teke breed no horse is tabu to breed.
Maybe for some the knowledge that a horse has some for you unacceptable flaws, will destroy the moment of poetry and then the quest must go on, we all know that there is a Teke for everyone!

22. Leonid09/05/2006 23:19:54
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

I sent here pictures of tekes. Between them is Karayusup. Somebody says: "he is exelent but ..." And begin theme which is far from this heavenly horses. If you are artist - wellcome, if you are accountant - you can count balls of cows, dogs, wethers all your life. You can improove balls of them to infinity.

23. Leonid09/05/2006 23:36:08
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Thanks to such lovers of akhalteke, you need to pay for breed license for sire now. In that time, no one breeder in Russia does not do this payment.

24. Blanca09/06/2006 05:24:43

Interestingly enough, and after many discussions on the subject, I still don't know what are the problems of a crypto…therefore, I don't have any reason to be against it, although I wouldn't buy a crypto stallion knowing that to breed with him is forbidden in any Western country.

AT horses are a living piece of art. I agree with Jessica; for me, it could be as –or even more- stimulating to see a beautiful AT than the best music or painting.

But, above all, they are animals. And as it is artistically very stimulating to see a good AT, it is very sad to see an unsound horse leading a hard life. We need to be responsible for what we produce. Therefore, I'm happy to see that there are breeding rules in most of the modern studbooks. Another powerful reason –more than the horse welfare, for sure- is the need to protect their markets, just as Louis Vuitton, Hitachi and the Rioja wineries are doing.

These rules are new in the AT world and we are not happy about it. What would be important is to see if we are not happy about these rules because of the rules themselves or also because of the aledged partiality and bad performance of the stud book management that is imposing the rules…

25. Leonid09/06/2006 06:20:55
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Blanka, explane me please, why are you depend from rules of Western countries? You can get papers from Russia for your offspring. And your local rules for akhaltekes must conform to our general rules.

26. Leonid09/06/2006 06:35:33
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Sorry Blanca, why do you give an example another Studbooks? We have bussines with pure blood breed and Pure Blood StudBook. Another meantion absolutly. Only one reason - PURE BLOOD.

27. Todd09/06/2006 07:40:25
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com

Leonid,

What is the criteria to get a stallion license?
Is it only $$$$? Will licenses only be given to Elite stallions?
Stallions recommended for breeding? Will foals born from non licensed stallions be allowed into the studbook? This is interesting! If the only criteria to be allowed into the purebred studbook is that the foal is a purebred, what is the purpose of a stallion license???
If a license gives no extra merit to a stallion why pay?
We have already seen the mistakes in the 10th studbook, how will stallion licenses help the breed? BTW, I finally got a reply from Chagorta (thanks Sigrid). Grigori confirmed that Kirgi died in 1977 and so cannot be the sire of Delegatka we discussed on my blog previously.... Will stallion licenses help the studbook from making such mistakes again???
Todd

28. Leonid09/06/2006 07:53:03
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

I can not answer to you Todd, I don't pay for this and have not such questions.

29. Heather Mahoney09/06/2006 09:47:29

Jessica,
Thank you for your respectful comments. I certainly did not mean to start such a heated debate, and should have been more mindful of my statement.

Maria,
I was NOT aware of Garayusup's unique position as a breeder, without a living sire, and hope you will forgive my ignorance on this. As I said, I am relatively new to AT's and am still learning about the primary lines, their history, and their impact on today's successful AT population. As you surely know, there is not much in the way of comprehensive literature on the Akhal-Teke, as there is for other breeds, and the learning curve is somewhat slowed when most of your education on the breed is gleaned from discussions with breeders (the opportunity for which is few and far between) and on this blog. Secondly, I have only seen Garayusup in photos... not in the flesh, and for me, it is hard to be as inspired as you and many others obviously are without that personal interaction. He IS an amazing animal, even judging from photos alone, and if you are happy to breed with crypto, you have every right to do so.

Leonid,
I am not, as you said above, trying to be an accountant. It is the artistry of this breed that has attracted me in the first place. That they are magnificent animals - Garayusup included - is not up for debate. Please understand, however, that all of my previous experience in international horse affairs is within the warmblood world of dressage, eventing and jumping. This is where I currently have familiarity and feel knowledgeable, and during my lifetime cryto-orchidism has always been, as Jessica said, a taboo. If this is something that is not considered detrimental within the AT world, that is something I will have to adjust to, and again, will have to make my own judgments on. I think that Maria's point was well taken, when she suggested that exceptional individuals like Garayusup may be bred to preserve their outstanding qualities, while not encouraging cryto-orchidism breed-wide. Our disagreement aside, the point is that the Akhal-Teke is an outstanding breed with a lot to offer the international community. But as their sphere of influence expands, controversies between accepted cultural norms will arise, and there must be a mechanism through which the breeder and investor can come to an amicable agreement, with full disclosure of the "characteristics" (such as crypto) that exist within the individual's line. I wasn't kidding when I said that whether we are in 100% agreement or not on all issues, I would keep you as my friend, as you are certainly to be respected within the AT community, and I very much hope to make it to your stud during next year's Equiros.

Best wishes to all,
Heather

30. Leonid09/07/2006 02:04:49
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Heather, wellcome!
And try to understan this horses bred during thousands years, like pure blood breed whith rules, where was only one reason "PURE BLOOD". When World became open, western peaple came to us and began to look at this ancient horse with warmblood eyes. They bring biotekhnologies, estimations without races. We are afraid of this and must protect our ancient traditions.

31. Blanca09/07/2006 04:04:48

Huummm, Leonid, I'm going to invite you to Europe to see our PURE BLOOD

32. Leonid09/07/2006 10:14:29
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Thank you very much.

33. Blanca09/07/2006 11:44:27

Maybe we could organise your coming to see my horses and for you to make a presentation on your breeding plans to the breeders of the area

34. Leonid09/07/2006 14:10:01
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Thank you very much agein. It is some unexpectedly.

35. Heather Mahoney09/07/2006 15:19:39

Leonid,
Your point is well taken. Even though I am most familiar with warmbloods, I would not want to see AT's be bred to fit warmblood confirmation. It is their extreme type that I find so interesting and alluring in the first place. However, it is difficult to come from an arena in which your are often offered the convenience and relative security of seeing genetic and physical tests on an individual that can reveal a lot about their breeding before you make the sometimes pricey journey to see them in person, to the very traditional world of AT breeding where this is not the norm. It doesn't mean you are wrong and I am right - only that it requires that you are much more knowledgable and able to trust the breeder you are working with to be honest about possible abnormalities or defects in the line. For those like myself not used to the non-western way of doing things... give us time and a little experience, and we will learn.

Blanca,
Where in Europe are you located? If you drag Leonid out, I hope you will make a general announcement, as Eaurope is much closer to me than Russia.

36. maria09/08/2006 09:26:01

Leonid in Europe is a great idea - I am all for it. But, Heather, seeing Leonid in Europe is no substitute to going to Russia to see the best horses - it's only another 3 hours on the plane

37. Heather Mahoney09/08/2006 09:33:39

True, True. I have family in Europe though, and so can always find a place to crash thereabouts! I don't know where Blanca is located however.

I'm quite serious, Maria, about attending Equiros next year. I've already filed for my daughter's passport (she's only 1 and doesn't have one yet), and intend to arrange some visits then. I told my husband he may come or stay as he pleases, but I'll be there! Are you located in Europe as well, or Russia? It sounded like you were present at this years Equiros.
Cheers,
Heather

38. maria09/08/2006 09:40:52

Heather, I live in Devon, UK. I think you said you have a Cornish connection - that's the next county before you hit the Atlantic on the map. I attended Moscow Meeting this year for the first time though I had been to Russia before and seen Leonid's horses at his stud outside Moscow, as well as some of them in training in Moscow. My proudest moment was to ride for 10 minutes in walk the marvellous dressage stallion Babakhan. I have not been to Equiros yet but am intenting to go next year. I also will one day try to go to Dagestan to offer an English carrot to Garayusup. Don't worry about the logistics, a lot of us have been to Moscow and will help you with the practical arrangements. Taking babies abroad should not be a problem, it does them good to travel.

39. maria09/08/2006 09:42:59

Heather, I am also, of course, a happy smiling owner of one of Leonid's horses

40. Blanca09/08/2006 10:28:39

Heather, I'm in Luxembourg. You're very much welcome to come.

Leonid, the EuroTeke crew will be waiting for you!

41. Heather Mahoney09/08/2006 11:42:46

Maria,
I'm familiar with Devon, but haven't been there. My mom and I are planning to be in the UK over Spring break this school year or early summer for holiday, so perhaps I could arrange to come see your AT?? We were planning to go to Oban, but I'm sure we could arrange a swing south. Thank you for your encouragement in traveling to Russia. I'm sure I will make ample use of your help and suggestions when the time comes! I'm hoping it is child friendly, as I like to take my daughter along... my parents always took us everywhere. However, my mom usually travels along as "nanny" so more serious business can be child-free.

Blanca,
I don't have any family in the Luxembourg area (they're all in the UK, Sicily or Hungary) but that's no problem. I'm hoping to be all over Europe next summer. You see, I am a teacher, and due to a later school year start mandated by the government, we will have an extra long summer next year, so it's the perfect excuse to take an extended holiday.

42. Maria09/09/2006 03:29:06

Heather, of course, you are welcome to visit us in Devon and to meet Mualim.

43. Darya09/09/2006 07:03:55

That would be great if Heather could come down to Devon. I could come visit at the same time and we all could have some great time. I could bring my stallion across as well, don't know about the mare, she could be too heavily pregnant for that. There's Devon county show on 17, 18 and 19th of May 2007 I want to attend too. Would be good to time it all together.

44. Heather Mahoney09/09/2006 17:27:28

Darya,
I don't think we're out of school quite yet on the May dates, but I'll check. I'm sure I'll be as ready as my students for vacation by that point! But I'll definitely keep that in mind.

Maria,
Thanks for the welcome! At this point we are focussed on seeing as many Tekes as possible, as the only we've seen in person yet are Todd and Jessica's. Lots of photos of course, but there aren't many AT's in Florida, much to my dismay!

Heather

45. Maria09/09/2006 18:46:27

Darya, we should definitely do Devon County! I am so glad to have finally found someone wanting to promote the breed in the UK! As they say in Russian: "Odin v pole ne voin" - I invite you, bloggers, to give me a good poetic translation into English of this Russian expression (or into Swedish, Spanish, German or French, for that matter!).

46. Leonid09/10/2006 00:50:48
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Маша, не люблю я эту поговорку. Как раз Один и есть Воин, остальные всего лишь группа сопровождения. Просто этот Один должен осознать, что он Воин, что ему это дано.
Я люблю другую поговорку: "Даже маленький рот может сказать большое слово".
Так держать!!!

47. Darya09/10/2006 03:47:39

Thank you for all your support. Leonid, that should be your moto. That really suits your personality. Really made me laugh.
Maria, I wrote a request to Devon county Friday night, waiting for reply, I guess I should get it on Monday. I'll let you know. I think it is really selfish to love the breed and keep it locked away as a jewel of some sort. I'm so in love with the breed I want to share it with other people and infect them all with it!!! I think it's great!
Heather, be good if you could make it for the show, I really enjoyed it last year and it is just that something extra for you to see. I realise though it might not be the right time. But I though I let you know anyways, so you can decide yourself.

48. Heather Mahoney09/11/2006 09:30:15

Darya,
We shall see. I would like very much to make it, but there is a lot on my plate for this next year. Early summer is pretty certain though, and I will not be hurried then, which is nice.

Leonid,
I have not head that saying, but I like it! I think I tend to fit into this category... my small mouth sometimes has the tendancy to thinks it's bigger than it is. It is a curse and a blessing, as sometimes it has gotten me farther than I could have guessed... and other times it has gotten me into a lot of trouble!

Heather

49. Leonid09/11/2006 10:08:10
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

We must listen to everybody!